Sunday, February 17, 2013

Addenda to my two previous posts

I would like to add a couple of addenda to my two previous posts. Randa has read both posts, and has requested that I clarify them:

(1) It is not true that pranayama is practiced in the padmasana in the three finishing lotus postures (as I said in this post). The duration of the breath, as she counts it (and, I take it, as Lino counts it as well) is indeed longer than the duration of Sharath's count, but there is no breath retention involved. That was purely my impression: Because my breath was not long enough, I had to hold my breath for one or two seconds at the end of each inhalation and each exhalation. Hence my impression that there was pranayama involved. This is important to clarify, as Randa wants me to make it clear that there is no pranayama involved here.

(2) As for the matter of the vinyasa count for lifting up and jumping back (see this post), Randa has this to say: "you inhale in the pose then on the exhale place your hands to be ready to lift up".

I don't suppose everybody is going to agree on everything, but the least I can do here is to make it clear what people are saying, and not misrepresent them. Which, hopefully, I have managed to do with these addenda.

I also see that a few other people have left comments pertaining to these issues in these two previous posts. Thank you for doing so. I'll probably reply to you tomorrow: I'm too beat right now after driving the whole day to get back here to Idaho. In the meantime, perhaps you may find these addenda useful? :-)

12 comments:

  1. Krishnamacharya refers to a natural kumbaka between the breaths of a second or two, at the top of the inhale and bottom of the exhale, this is more apparent when we breath longer and more slowly. If we breath more quickly we hardly notice it. Does that count as a 'real' kumbhaka? can't decide, K. makes a distinction though and says that in certain postures you can increase that kumbhaka up to five seconds or so. Again does a five second Kumbhaa count as a real kumbhaka? Can't decide.

    Sorry for all the comments. the ipad would keep freezing up so had to split them over several comments and it wouldn't allow me to go back and edit. loved the Video btw, you have a beautiful practice Noble

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    1. No problem with all the comments, Grimmly. Don't you hate it when stuff freezes up? ;-)

      What K says seems right. My own experience has been that with longer breaths, I have a natural tendency to kumbhaka (is this a verb?) between inhalations and exhalations. I also don't know if it is a "real" (as in "officially sanctioned by the lineage"?) kumbhaka. Maybe five seconds is indeed the threshold where a kumbhaka becomes "real" ;-)

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    2. It's interesting, in Pranayama there's discussion about the minimum length of kumbhaka to achieve any benefit and you can see why if somebody is thinking of that kind of extended kumbhaka they might argue that there is nor should be kumbhaka in asana practice. And yet there s something about that natural kumbhaka that seems almost more real or at least natural. Perhaps one reason for slowing the breath to such an extent is the achievement of that natural kumbhaka which of course is lost somewhat with th speeding up of the breath.

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  2. Randa's clarification is in keeping with my experience in Sharath's led primary, if I'm reading you correctly. You hold the seated pose for the five, then inhale in the pose while lifting the head, exhale unwinding the legs and releasing the hands to place them alongside the hips, inhale to lift up, and exhale to jump back. I wasn't jumping back with the legs still in the posture OR coming through a sharp dandasana, either. The count is too quick for the latter-- I was moving from the pose directly into the shin-crossing position in preparation for lifting up, and the configuration of my legs in the process depended on where they were in the previous pose and what the most efficient path to crossed shins was. I hope the corroboration is useful!

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    1. Thanks MM. This corroboration is indeed useful. After thinking about it, I think that Randa's clarification is actually in line with Sharath's led count (and the other way around too).

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  3. There is a senior (and very well respected) teacher who encourages students to do viloma or analoma pranayama during finishing padmasana, and says that it can even be practiced in a traditional room since the teacher 'won't be able to tell what you are doing'. So, a statement like 'It is not true that pranayama is practiced in the padmasana in the three finishing lotus postures' is problematic since even Sharath may not be sure what students are actually doing.

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    1. "...the teacher 'won't be able to tell what you are doing'."

      This is probably true. But don't you think this kind of skirts the issue: If the issue is whether doing pranayama during finishing padamasana is "traditional", then the fact that one can get away with doing it without the teacher noticing wouldn't address the issue, would it?

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  4. Petri is expert on vinyasa :-)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYPOFzxPsWQ

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  5. I request an addenda to the addenda - just so you can say you did. Surely that's on your bucket list somewhere?

    In my practice, I have really learned to appreciate the powerful space at the end of the exhale. I was taught to use that space to find lightness, i.e. in lifting the legs up into headstand or jumping forward from downward-facing dog. I'm not sure it counts strictly as a kumbhaka, but it is a deep and powerful space nonetheless.

    I find the debate around integrating pranayama into ashtanga fascinating. I was taught to do my pranayama and meditation before practice, as that is when the mind (and the nervous system) is quietest. But many other practices, for instance Yin and Viniyoga, integrate pranayama as an integral part of the practice. (Viniyoga is often done entirely on a ratio of 1:2 inhale:exhale).

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    1. Space at the end of the exhale might otherwise be known as kevala kumbhaka. Considered by some to be the most subtle of pranayama.

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    ReplyDelete