tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post1123474878265621068..comments2024-03-21T00:30:14.738-07:00Comments on Yoga in the Dragon's Den: Some thoughts on faith and the practiceNobelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-50054224632540533742012-04-12T11:22:06.175-07:002012-04-12T11:22:06.175-07:00I would be using respect here in the sense of '...I would be using respect here in the sense of 'worthy of consideration' to see (spec) again (re ) or worthy of investigation. to pick up serene's comment don't we commit ourself to investigation putting our convictions under erasure, to one side in the inquiry. I like the sense of presence too with commitment as opposed to conviction, which we carry over from the past and faith a projection towards future.<br />Achtung as Reverence in the Kantian sense would leave me with a moral surrender too, no Nobel ( you'll know better than I) and you know how I feel about surrender so i'll stick with respect.<br /><br />Perhaps my experience was a result of being on the continental side of the fence rather tan the analytical and being in a few Heidegger reading groups with some very very sharp, forward thinking, theologians.Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-76245033555779670332012-04-12T10:54:55.235-07:002012-04-12T10:54:55.235-07:00"I am going to stay in the shallow end of thi..."I am going to stay in the shallow end of this pool..."<br /><br />There is no "shallow", only different kinds of "deep" :-)<br /><br />'Otherwise you lacked what we all call commitment, and doubt kind of distracts and compromises the "experiment",no?'<br /><br />Actually, from listening to the experiences of many yogis and yoginis who have worked through difficulties in the practice, I get the sense that doubt is very much a part of the questioning and experimenting process. Perhaps the challenge lies in finding a way to be with the doubts, and work with them productively to move you towards a place of greater knowledge and freedom, rather than the opposite. And faith/sraddha/whatever-one-chooses to call-this-container serves as a sort of controlled laboratory environment within which to carry out one's experimentations...Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-55968800770710068942012-04-12T10:48:45.086-07:002012-04-12T10:48:45.086-07:00Yes, I think freedom from fear is very key. Could ...Yes, I think freedom from fear is very key. Could it be that faith/shradda and freedom from fear are two sides of the same coin? In the sense that having a deep belief that the practice works for you frees you from fear... Just wondering.Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-54149849919408319652012-04-12T10:44:48.579-07:002012-04-12T10:44:48.579-07:00Respect is a nice word choice :-) Actually, it bri...Respect is a nice word choice :-) Actually, it brings to mind the Kantian notion of Achtung, which is usually translated either as "Respect" or "Reverence"... I actually wrote my MA thesis on Achtung way back. <br /><br />Could it be that the "correct" or appropriate attitude to approach practice is with an attitude of Achtung? Just as we should respect the Moral Law within (as Kant would say), we should also respect the practice as an embodiment of something that is both within ourselves yet at the same time bigger than our egos?<br /><br />Something to think about, don't you think? :-)Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-27991812654737707272012-04-12T10:35:40.998-07:002012-04-12T10:35:40.998-07:00The Kino and Tina Turner videos are really just a ...The Kino and Tina Turner videos are really just a means to reach out to more people, who may not otherwise bother to read my random musings ;-)<br /><br />Very interesting, Grimmly. I can't say much about questioning within Catholicism and Protestantism, since I have limited experience with both (although I do know that Protestantism was born out of questioning Catholic doctrine). <br /><br />"Theology is perhaps the only department that Philosophers respect as equals (or at least don't look down our noses at), in that they, like Philosophy, question thoroughly the ground of their own discipline, we're even perhaps intimidated by them..."<br /><br />Hmm... I'm not quite sure whether I agree with this; my general experience with philosophers in the analytic tradition is of a general atmosphere of distrust of anything religious or faith-based. In fact, many analytic philosophers I know will be the first ones to look down their noses at theologians; they especially scorn Aquinas's view that "Philosophy is the handmaiden of Theology."<br /><br />But I would like to stress that all this is only my experience; I move only within analytic circles (and even then, only within a rather small subset of these circles). I certainly know little about what Continental folks are thinking today. And actually, even within analytic philosophy, there are the folks at Notre Dame (Alvin Plantinga, et al) who try to explain religious experience in analytic terms. Plantinga, for instance, champions the view that religious knowledge is basic, non-inferential knowledge. I have no idea how plausible his view actually is. <br /><br />So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the truth as to the attitude of philosophers about theology is a rather complicated matter, one which I don't feel qualified to say anything definitive about (which, of course, doesn't prevent me from saying a lot ;-)).Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-80912627144875962532012-04-12T09:59:43.486-07:002012-04-12T09:59:43.486-07:00I am going to stay in the shallow end of this pool...I am going to stay in the shallow end of this pool and go ahead and say that every time that you make a choice (in asana or in any other circumstance requiring action), you need a certain amount of conviction that it is going to work out. Otherwise you lacked what we all call commitment, and doubt kind of distracts and compromises the "experiment",no? What is that fuel we use when we decide we are going for it called?sereneflavorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01918585302744520840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-65426080267872982652012-04-12T06:37:54.481-07:002012-04-12T06:37:54.481-07:00Thanks for expanding on this, Nobel. My practical...Thanks for expanding on this, Nobel. My practical understanding of shradda is to be anchored in the absence of fear -- less of a "belief" and more of a state of mind.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094174577863519854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-73701275266803860572012-04-12T01:08:06.075-07:002012-04-12T01:08:06.075-07:00But perhaps not always RN, isn't it the case t...But perhaps not always RN, isn't it the case that it's often switched around that faith arises out of the ground of practice, a religious background your born into, practices and rituals you grow up with , just growing through the motions and yet faith may evolve almost despite your inclinations, I wonder.<br /><br />What I find most interesting is how one goes about questioning faith, to apply the rational to something that perhaps lies outside the rational, through the practice itself perhaps, the practice becoming a form of inquiry. <br />Fascinating topic Noble/Megan.Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-25547935589958109302012-04-11T23:01:56.361-07:002012-04-11T23:01:56.361-07:00The Faith section outlines the basic belief system...The Faith section outlines the basic belief systems from both an historical and contemporary view point. The Practice section attempts to explain the organizational structure. Practice arise from faith that which forms the basis of practice is faith. Thanks a lot.Religious Newshttp://www.odysseynetworks.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-72076242002357547882012-04-11T22:52:23.711-07:002012-04-11T22:52:23.711-07:00Respect, there you go, wouldn't say I love the...Respect, there you go, wouldn't say I love the practice or necessarily have faith in it but I do respect it...and enough to question it.Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-15615756178937732752012-04-11T22:51:03.173-07:002012-04-11T22:51:03.173-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-59458642185949411462012-04-11T22:24:32.234-07:002012-04-11T22:24:32.234-07:00I saw Megan's comment on faith and wanted to c...I saw Megan's comment on faith and wanted to comment then but was short of time., still am need to practice.<br />Perhaps there is a different experience of Christianity on either side of the pond, the bible, scripture christians on the US side and the European side. Protestantism was a result of questioning of course and within the Catholic church, in the Seminary's the questioning is such that most priests are expected to undergo a 'crisis of faith'... it's almost encouraged. <br />For some reason the idea has come about that one should not question one's faith, quite the opposite. <br />Theology is perhaps the only department that Philosophers respect as equals (or at least don't look down our noses at), in that they, like Philosophy, question thoroughly the ground of their own discipline, we're even perhaps intimidated by them, those boys know how to question ... and with rigour ( I studied philosophy at Canterbury, wall to wall theologians). <br />Quite wonderfully of course Kierkegaard questioned the question of the question of faith. <br />Me, I'm not sure I have faith in anything (and aren't searching for any), which I find a little sad, certainly not in the practice, I just get up every morning and do it anyway ...out of stubbornness perhaps.<br />I wouldn't say I love it either, though enjoy it on the whole. Now there's something to question Love, being blind and all.<br />But I agree with Megan that Yoga is about questioning, everything and especially all that you hold most comfortably to be true, even a questioning of questioning and with rigour. <br /><br />i shouldn't comment though as I haven't watched Kino's video, too many videos recently no, overexposure?Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.com