tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post1866027048063783818..comments2024-03-21T00:30:14.738-07:00Comments on Yoga in the Dragon's Den: Interesting Factoid: Ashtanga was not designed for teenage boysNobelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-62573626979910389772012-06-28T08:25:14.726-07:002012-06-28T08:25:14.726-07:00In the November 2010 issue of Yoga Journal, Mark S...In the November 2010 issue of Yoga Journal, Mark Singleton unveils the stunning and unsettling truth about yoga. The second day when I found out that Santa didn’t exist. I felt so cheated. All I could think at that moment was: “My teachers lied to me! K. Pattabhi Jois, B.K.S. Iyengar, and T.K.V. Desikachar lied to the world!“<br /> <br />What Singleton discovered was at once remarkable yet disturbing. While perusing the Cambridge University Library, he came across a book with picture after picture of men and women in the oh-so-familiar yoga asanas, from Warrior Pose, to Downward Dog, to Headstand, Handstand, and more. But this was not a yoga book, but rather a book describing an early 20th century Danish system of exercise called Primitive Gymnastics.<br /> <br />According to Singleton, the early 20th century marked a period during which there was a large struggle for independence everywhere in the world. Their logic was that, with stronger bodies they would improve the chances of defeating others in a variety of violent struggles. And so, the Europeans used these gymnastics to strengthen their bodies.<br /> <br />The Indian yoga gurus, once deeming any physical exercises or gymnastic-like postures as something the lower caste people do for a living, now saw the benefits of these exercises, and in turn melded the gymnastic moves into their yoga practices.<br /> <br />It was about this time, in the 1930s that the famous Krishnamacharya, teacher of B.K.S. Iyengar, K. Pattabhi Jois, Indra Devi, and T.K.V. Desikachar, developed a dynamic asana practice, that combined hatha yoga, wrestling exercises, and modern Western gymnastic movement into what we know of today as the vinyasa yoga system.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-67561526143422217462012-06-04T09:27:57.929-07:002012-06-04T09:27:57.929-07:00"Old man, stiff man, weak man, sick man, they..."Old man, stiff man, weak man, sick man, they can all take practice but only a lazy man can't take practice."<br /><br />So why did Jois stop at sixty ? Lazy ? I don´t think so, but the diabetes makes you tired and acrobatics is not advisable when taking heavy doses of insuline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-85830592173636976922012-05-27T09:27:42.716-07:002012-05-27T09:27:42.716-07:00Jois stopped practicing at sixty because his body ...Jois stopped practicing at sixty because his body wore out, Iyengar still practice at 93. Jois was instructor for the young wrestlers at the Mysore palace so he created a physically demanding routine, he was even inspired by the British soldiers fixed calisthenics routines, thats how the "series" was created.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-63559530099228432802012-03-16T18:17:05.685-07:002012-03-16T18:17:05.685-07:00Well, the premise/main plot idea that comes to min...Well, the premise/main plot idea that comes to mind right now would be some kind of alternate history novel: Imagine an alternate universe in which Patanjali was in fact an alien (actually, who's to say he couldn't in fact have been one? After all, it's not like any of us actually know for sure that the guy actually existed or have met him face to face...). He came to earth a few thousand years ago, and taught this bunch of disgruntled and disenfranchised brahmins yoga. In return, the brahmins revere him as the founder of yoga as we know it. Little did they know, however, that Patanjali was in fact on a mission to take over the earth, and that yoga was in fact a set of mind-control techniques designed to make humans all peaceful and submissive, so that when the alien mothership arrives in the future, they will be able to easily conquer the human race, who by that time would be totally blissed out from doing all this yoga, and would not be able to fight the aliens...<br /><br />Ha! What a story! Unfortunately, I don't seem to have the patience to write this. Besides, who would want to read a novel like this?Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-48023011922367956412012-03-16T18:10:32.315-07:002012-03-16T18:10:32.315-07:00Yes, I did not succeed in finding a suitable cave ...Yes, I did not succeed in finding a suitable cave near where I live, so I'm still blogging at the moment :-) <br /><br />Interesting. Will check out the link very soon.Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-63877134678397883172012-03-16T17:38:22.792-07:002012-03-16T17:38:22.792-07:00Hmm... I wonder if you've thought about writin...Hmm... I wonder if you've thought about writing your own science fiction novel? I love the alien yoga idea... reminds me of a Robert Heinlein plot or... there was one sci fi writer who wrote about enlightenment, who was that? Was it Terri something?<br /><br />Oh dear, trying to pull information out of this brain from a few years ago... possibly a few decades ago, is a scary prospect.DeborahShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02342199099292606304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-63310703094832804402012-03-16T14:31:12.147-07:002012-03-16T14:31:12.147-07:00Yeah, Mercurial Yoga! I'm glad you surfaced No...Yeah, Mercurial Yoga! I'm glad you surfaced Nobel, I was wondering if you had found a suitable cave.<br /><br />Change of subject: have you seen?<br /><br />http://iambruceleemovie.com/sereneflavorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01918585302744520840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-43474691285376709892012-03-16T10:18:08.848-07:002012-03-16T10:18:08.848-07:00I read Singleton's book some time ago as well....I read Singleton's book some time ago as well. Very interesting. <br /><br />As with most myths, it is very hard to pinpoint just who exactly started it. Of course, it probably also doesn't help that scholars, with their veneer of academic authority, also contribute to the myth intentionally or unintentionally. <br /><br />I'm also not attached to the idea that this precise sequence of postures is 2000 years old. If I were to find out tomorrow that it was in fact a bunch of hippies who invented it in the 60s, and/or that a bunch of aliens secretly taught it to a group of Brahmins, I'll still do the practice anyway(Alien Yoga? More power!). Actually, come to think of it, this might explain all those references to serpents with a thousand white heads... I mean, when was the last time you saw something like this on earth? :-)Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-45521437122275372112012-03-16T02:57:17.565-07:002012-03-16T02:57:17.565-07:00Hey Nobel, I'm procrastinating from my own pr...Hey Nobel, I'm procrastinating from my own practice at the moment :). But as a follower of and fan of your blog, I wanted to say to you (and perhaps obliquely to V), that Mark Singleton's book Yoga Body is, in my humble opinion, an excellent book and well worth reading. It's really interesting to discover here that he is also an ashtanga practitioner. <br />And since I'm not, and never have been, a teenage boy, and am also lumbering my way through 2nd series with this tiny hope of getting to third before I turn 50, it's clear that this practice is not only for teenage boys. Who did say that anyway? Probably all those people who write for the Times.<br /><br />I found the idea that this style of yoga was influenced by gymnastics and women's harmonial dance (if I remember correctly) to be fascinating. In fact, it makes the history of this practice more interesting to me. I know there's a lot of controversy about the things he says,... and I don't want to get into it here or I won't make it to my mat before it's time to get the kids off to school. But I'm not particularly attached to the idea that this precise sequence of poses is 2000 years old. Would it be so terrible to find that Pattabhi Jois took what he learned from Krishnamacharya and created something new and wonderful?DeborahShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02342199099292606304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-41178796735450552032012-03-15T13:26:50.326-07:002012-03-15T13:26:50.326-07:00Thanks for commenting, Grimmly. Yes, perhaps I am ...Thanks for commenting, Grimmly. Yes, perhaps I am a little out of touch with my blogging self... (Moral of the story: Blog more regularly?)<br /><br />In any case, I have also read somewhere that K taught Indra Devi differently, but I don't have enough details to know just how differently.Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-2150275274876883202012-03-15T13:15:50.123-07:002012-03-15T13:15:50.123-07:00Little harsh Noble but then you've been away f...Little harsh Noble but then you've been away from blogging for a week. When I heard Eddie talking about that at the confluence I was reminded of Indra Devi, taught around the same time as Pattabhi Jois and the rest of the boys ( see the picture at the front of the Makaranda of K standing on him in kapo)but very differently it seems. Just a thought.Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-42811587430330532022012-03-15T12:14:46.792-07:002012-03-15T12:14:46.792-07:00I have no quarrel with anybody's credentials: ...I have no quarrel with anybody's credentials: It's all great and wonderful that one is an accomplished Ashtanga practitioner and has a PhD from Cambridge. Is that scholarly enough for me? Hmm... to be really honest, I don't know what is "scholarly enough" these days. I mean, if being "scholarly enough" means that one gets to make partly suppository claims in books and come across sounding scholarly while doing so... well, that's great, I suppose. Whatever rocks your boat, no? :-)Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-87363614988512026422012-03-15T12:05:17.703-07:002012-03-15T12:05:17.703-07:00Thanks for the quote, Anonymous. This is very inte...Thanks for the quote, Anonymous. This is very interesting. Not having read the book recently (and not having it on hand), I can't really add too much to this. <br /><br />But whether or not the system was originally designed for young boys, and whether or not Singleton's "partly suppository" claim is true, it is definitely true that most Ashtanga practitioners today are not teenage boys (one doesn't have to be any kind of a scholar to be able to say this, I hope ;-)). And as far as I can see, practitioners today seem to be benefiting from practicing this system that may originally have been designed for teenage boys.<br /><br />Ha! I said I can't really add too much to this, but ended saying all this anyway. Oh well. Maybe none of this really matters, after all. Just do the practice, and all is coming (or not...).Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-54109505077727804142012-03-15T11:50:16.458-07:002012-03-15T11:50:16.458-07:00He admits it is partly supposition. I just don'...He admits it is partly supposition. I just don't think there is any need to mock someone's credentials (which are actually pretty good) just because you disagree with them.Vhttp://thehiddenashtangi.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-69258357837948678732012-03-15T11:45:17.611-07:002012-03-15T11:45:17.611-07:00'...and would have provided a serviceable teac...'...and would have provided a serviceable teaching format for large groups of boys. While this last reflection is partly supposition, it does offer a plausible explanation of the relative lack of attention to individual constitution in the Joiss system (at least in comparison to the teachings of T.K.V Desikachar, and other Krishnamacharya disciples such as A.G. Mohan and Srivatsa Ramaswami)...' p189 The Yoga Body. Mark Singleton.<br /><br />but I agree bit disrespectful, he makes a good argument whether we agree with all of it or not and the question surely is whether it was ORIGINALLY design for young boys and whether that matters and if so how much. There are many examples in the Guruji book of the system being adapted, it is adaptable. However, taken as a fixed system designed at a particular time for a particular age group in a particular place it's worthy of serious discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-37412705933383455272012-03-15T11:41:34.629-07:002012-03-15T11:41:34.629-07:00Yeah, that sounds really sincere.Yeah, that sounds really sincere.Vhttp://thehiddenashtangi.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-41074351506651876802012-03-15T11:15:53.014-07:002012-03-15T11:15:53.014-07:00I'm sorry you are offended :-)I'm sorry you are offended :-)Nobelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-12796809959493391062012-03-15T11:11:33.376-07:002012-03-15T11:11:33.376-07:00FYI, Mark is a very accomplished Ashtanga practici...FYI, Mark is a very accomplished Ashtanga practicioner. And he is not a "supposed" scholar. He IS a scholar with a PhD from Cambridge University. Is that scholarly enough for you? Finally, can you quote the part of his book where he says that "Ashtanga is only for teenage boys"?<br /><br />I take offence because he is a very good friend of mine.Vhttp://thehiddenashtangi.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com