tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post2305182543634432253..comments2024-03-21T00:30:14.738-07:00Comments on Yoga in the Dragon's Den: Why can't yoga be a spiritual practice that is not a religion? Nobelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00655577410721103577noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-78440203348124079972013-02-27T16:59:24.052-08:002013-02-27T16:59:24.052-08:00Well I'm no vidvan or anything, but doesn'...Well I'm no vidvan or anything, but doesn't it seem a little arbitrary to declare a niyama optional? I think they're talking about ishvara as Patanjali describes in the first chapter, sutra 23-29, which is offered as an alternative. The ashtanga method laid out in the second chapter doesn't mention anything about optional niyamas.<br /><br />Good point about "ishvara" being open to interpretation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-23318503743738279092013-02-27T15:55:15.500-08:002013-02-27T15:55:15.500-08:00Krishnamacharya taught Ramaswami and Ramaswami tau...Krishnamacharya taught Ramaswami and Ramaswami taught me that in the Yoga Sutras devotion to Ishvara was an option an alternative fast track approach to Samadhi. If you were not religiously inclined then that was ok because the method Patanjali laid out could be seen as quite secular. Also my understanding of Ishvara was that it could represent your own personal deity. Both Ramaswami and Krishnamacharya are and we're deeply religious as well as being quite scientific, Krishnamacharya supposedly planted seven coconut trees in his garden to represent the seven planets. No doubt Krishnamacharya had many heated arguments with other scholars concerning his interpretation of the Ishvara passages. Luckily my teacher provides me with wiggle room.Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-23671791973847793042013-02-27T15:27:59.023-08:002013-02-27T15:27:59.023-08:00The Jois family are smarta Brahmins. Their family ...The Jois family are smarta Brahmins. Their family guru is Adi Shankarya, the foremost figure of Advaita Vedanta. This is the source of remarks from Guruji or Sharat along the lines of "everything is God." Advaita Vedanta is completely different from yoga in its philosophical assumptions. Completely different.<br /><br />That said, Ashtanga by definition includes ishvara pranidhana as part of the practice. To quote Guruji again - "this is Patanjali yoga" - would seem to conclude the discussion of whether our practice involves religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-51474254280285320812013-02-26T22:09:01.583-08:002013-02-26T22:09:01.583-08:00Sribhashyam lives in Europe btw, us heathen euros!...Sribhashyam lives in Europe btw, us heathen euros! He might have a different view if he lived in the midwest ( I lived in Kansas for a while).<br /><br />I do think they forget sometimes in India and Japan etc. that we have quite the religious tradition in the west, might not seem so these days but we have a few thousand years under our belt, great meditative traditions too, we called it prayer though. I know many traditional Zen and Vipassana teachers thought we were not ready for such practices (many still don't, Suzuki however said we have beginner's mind, a good thing) just as P. Jois and Sharath seem to have thought/think we're not ready/suited to meditation practice... a certain unintentional arrogance there perhaps, slightly patronising.... they'd be surprised....us too perhaps. Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-62560959191247788352013-02-26T22:00:27.326-08:002013-02-26T22:00:27.326-08:00I thought at the time that the big mistake was jus...I thought at the time that the big mistake was just to dismiss those who were complaining about the Ashtanga in Schools. they might not have been sure about what it was they were uncomfortable with or struggled to articulate it but it's clear there is an argument there, certainly a discussion.<br /><br />I wanted to throw this in the mix, came at the end of the Krishnamacharya movie I reviews yesterday, this is Krishnamacharya's youngest son speaking<br /><br />"Yoga is coming from a country in which God is very important, ever present in our life. So in one way it's easy for us to think of god, to keep him in our mind in whatever we do. But in the west it's not so. And as my father did not want to impose his personal religious beliefs to you he had to find a way in which he, let us say, develop in you the thirst for God or creator...<br /><br />The more you practice this session, the more you come to shirsasana and sarvangasana, bhujangasana, you reduce your mental activities and since you've already reduced your sense perceptions from the external world your emotional activities also come down and you end up with maha mudra and paschimottanasana, which look like yoga postures but where the concentration is so deep that you are...already, knowing what the peace of mind is. And it finishes, naturally, with concentration on the spiritual heart. That is where, whatever our religion is we consider our soul resides. So, with a peaceful mind and the mind directed at the heart naturally you have a glimpse of what your own spiritual life is, even if it is for a few seconds. By practice you learn to live (experience this?) for a long time" <br />TK Sribhashyam<br /><br />isn't that what schools are for to give us the tools to find our own way, the thinking skills to think our won thoughts, the language skills to express them and perhaps the tools/skills to discover our own take on the spiritual/divine even if that turns out to be a purely aesthetic sense. perhaps yoga creates the space to discover that.<br /><br /><br />and then this also where Krihnamacharya was asked what about those who don't have bhakti, religious devotion<br /><br />"Q: What does the bhakti mean to a person who has no belief in Isvara?<br /><br />Krishnamacharya: Love is bhakti for them".<br /><br />the old hippy : )<br /><br />Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-17681705175450692232013-02-26T18:36:28.968-08:002013-02-26T18:36:28.968-08:00i like your point about making music being spiritu...i like your point about making music being spiritual but not religious. one other thing- music performance at public schools generally includes religious music (at least it did when i was in school) - does singing the lord's prayer, the halleluhah chorus, christmas carols plus a few hannukah songs to "balance" it out(all things i sang in high school) make me more religious? does it not promote a christian-judao idea of education, and/or the religions themselves? where are the people suing the school district for violating the distinction between church and state in probably every district in the country? suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06443107664597025043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1449952380128375575.post-55410027016332699312013-02-26T18:17:26.443-08:002013-02-26T18:17:26.443-08:00All I know for sure is that Sharath (& Guruji ...All I know for sure is that Sharath (& Guruji before him) referenced God quite frequently. I'm wondering if the people who are arguing that yoga is secular have much of a connection with AYRI. If so, I think they're being disingenuous if they argue Ashtanga is religion-free. I believe one can practice without being religious, but I don't believe the practice is secular.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02687048821987802646noreply@blogger.com